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| Stainless Fret Wire http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8547 |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:29 am ] |
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I am just wondering who is using stainless steel fret wire. In preparation for carrying fret wire I would like to get a feeling for who would use stainless and who would use 18% NS. I have heard good things about stainless and will probably try it but I have also heard that it is a bit harder to cut but is more uniformally manufactured so results in less dressing and is MUCH smoother to play on. Anyway, not to bias any comments  , I would appreciate your views.
Thanks Shane |
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| Author: | peterm [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:40 am ] |
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Shane, I tried the stainless frets and they were a pain to work with!! Dulled my tools and trashed my pliers! 
Besides, its really hard to file... Never again for me!
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:15 am ] |
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I have started using it, you have to use the right tools, the advantage is that it lasts much much longer than standard Fretwire and in my testing the players like the feel of it better. LMI is starting to sell tools for working with it, I worked with it when I was training in Harry Fleischman and it wasn't that bad. I just ordered some of the Gold wire just to see how gaudy it looks... 
-Paul- |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:54 pm ] |
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Fret wear is half of the equation; string wear is the other half. Stainless steel is not only harder than nickel silver, it is far more abrasive. I would expect it to quickly wear notches in bronze/brass string windings. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:15 pm ] |
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I would expect it to quickly wear notches in bronze/brass string I would have thought so too, but in actual, real-world use, they don't. Perhaps because they polish up to such a fine, high degree, or perhaps we simply can't mash them down hard enough. Either way, I'm not much of a string changer on my personal guitars, and I can easily get 6 months without wearing the strings on my stainless frets. I'm sold on stainless frets.... |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:34 pm ] |
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I haven't tried it but am willing to give it a try. What new tools are required and what are the nuances of installation and tweaking? |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:24 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] Fret wear is half of the equation; string wear is the other half. Stainless steel is not only harder than nickel silver, it is far more abrasive. I would expect it to quickly wear notches in bronze/brass string windings.[/QUOTE] That has certainly not been my experience, the one guitar I have with them on seems to holding out just fine with the same set of strings for almost a year and I play it all the time. You can polish them like nobody's business and I would suspect that it's part of the reason for it. They also feel very smooth and silky when bending, I have yet to put them on an electric but the next time I build one I'm going too... They are hard to tools though, you have to take a different approach to using them... -Paul- |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:19 pm ] |
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I've heard all kind of good things from players, and all kind of bad from luthiers. This is like the third time I'm going to mention galling this week so I'm going to sound like a kook, but Mario's probably right about strings lasting longer. This is likely due to dissimilar metal contact. This is also why the SS fret would feel smoother because the metals are not grabbing each other. I've been threatening to redo my guitar with SS fret wire. You should feel pure hard chrome, it's like grease! Billy Dean |
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| Author: | Daniel M [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:38 pm ] |
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I've been wanting to try the stuff & I'm surprised to hear Howard mention excessive string wear. In my experience I've found SS to be very slippery & expected string wear to be less than with NS wire. I don't know if its pertinent, but lots of Cessna Aircaft use aluminum alloy hinges with a stainless hinge pin on their ailerons. The pins always wear faster than the aluminum. |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:54 pm ] |
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Aluminum can be pretty abrasive, plus there's a lot of coatings used on the aluminum, anodizing, alodine, Dow 17... . The anodizing itself is very tough, not really the aluminum. After the lead conversion and deposition the anodized coating is an aluminum oxide, which is, in fact, the abrasive used on many sand papers, though in a different form. Very tough! Stainless against bronze would hold up a lot better. Billy Dean Thomas |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:08 pm ] |
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Shane, I am echoing what others have said about S.S. I realy don't like working with it. Some players think it sounds better. Personaly I can't hear a difference, but I haven't realy tried either. Most times I just want to get the job done and get it out of my shop before someone else sees it and wants it. Some things for you to consider when going into the "wire" business... It is very important that the manufacturer understand that the tang be dead center. That your wire be dimensioned consistanly throughout. I have seen frets and new wire where it wasn't. I have seen wire with the tang slightly skewed to one side...Intonaton nightmare that you awake to usually whent the job is finished and can't figure out why the guitar isn't playing in tune. I' ve talked to/read about many of the bigger builders and the problems they had getting Consistant quality of wire. So remember if the quality isn't there or can't be relied on from batch to batch, no one will care what it's made of... it's just SCRAP. Also, I have seen people use metals like Berrilium, Titanium, and other metal/non-metal composites, etc. That might be cool for you to offer...you know, be the goto guy for exotic/different wires. Then if anyone had a customer that wanted bronz, copper, gold, or whatever...we all would know one good source to get it all from...you'd be THE man.
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:49 am ] |
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LMI refered to the nickelfree EU standard. I know that the EU banned nickel in jewelry. Is fret wire considered jewelry? Or, is the ban on human contact applications? I've never shown any sensitivity to nickel but I've heard that it is quite common. |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:32 am ] |
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Mike, my best friend has what looks like to most people a very fat wrist and is wearing her watch too tight causing it to poof out. Its actually scaring, thick tissue from wearing watches with nickel in the case. She has to wear a band that goes under the watch and doesn't allow it to touch her skin. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:54 am ] |
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So...what different tools and techniques are folks using for SS frets? |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:57 am ] |
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Thanks for this input. Dave, this manufacturer is high end and we have discussed the quality of the wire quite a bit. I have then had side bars with people that use it and they have supported what the company has perporte. So expect that the tangs will bang on, all the time. They are the 'gold wire' supplier also. JJ, I am not too sure what other tools a person will need for this wire. I have been told that the usual tools work but the wire is a lot tougher and the cutters will not last as long. So I might research more metal working utensils rather than luthier utensils. I will look into that a bit as I roll this stuff out. Dave, do you have any comments on tools required? Thanks again Shane |
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:57 am ] |
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I am interested like JJ in the re-tooling to handle the SS. It seems to be worth a try on one for myself to see what happens. Mike |
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| Author: | Frank Ford [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:03 am ] |
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If you read through my refretting articles on FRETS.COM, you'll see the details of how I go about fretting. For stainless wire, I use exactly the same techniques and the same tools, with one exception. The Collings-inspired fret tang nipper can't really take stainless steel in stride, so I found it was far more expedient to file the tang for the fret to overhang the binding. Taking (OK, stealing) the basic design from the Tacoma guitar factory, I made up a little filing jig that allows me to wack the tang off quickly and accurately. LMI is now selling this rig as stock #FTN - Tang Removal Tool. Other than that, I've had no problems with stainless, and all my tools are doing well. Files don't last all that long, but I use only hardware store files on which I grind safe edges and corners so replacing them twice as often is no problem. Same with the fret cutter - I grind my own from a regular diagonal cutter - Craftsman, in fact, so when the blades chip I get a free one. . . |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:14 am ] |
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Thanks Frank, One question, on your tool what is the "tuning key" at the bottom of the assembly? I am assuming that locks the fret in the jig? Thanks Shane |
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| Author: | Evan Gluck [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:38 am ] |
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Buy Frank's tool! Buy Frank's tool!! Pretend I said it with more urgency and louder. I got it at the GAL Convention from LMI in June. I have done a bunch of fret jobs since then and it works amazingly well. I was pretty fast before at the tang removal, but this is faster and impossible to make a mistake. I can't really ask for more from a tool. Keep it up Frank! Evan |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Fri Sep 22, 2006 6:56 am ] |
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You can get case hardened steel cutters that will cut SS without any problems, but they are hard to find. At Harry's one of the people there was a metal worker and he had a pair he let me try and they cut the fretwire with no problem at all (we destroyed the other pair)... I'll have to do some digging to find them, and for tangs just use Franks Tool (stolen idea or not )
-Paul- |
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